(Henry Mitchell), Yes but those 2 particular tapers are what many Dickerson aficionados refer to as the 7613 Guide and are much more comfortable with a 6 wt line than a 5 wt. Not too many folks consider these mediocre. 40 0.184 0.288 But nobody has a right to ask me to share it. to use it on trout other than the Yough, Savage River reservoir and some lakes. This is merely about applying engineering principles to designing a rod for a particular application. (Peter Jones) (Jerry Foster), For some applications, like fishing dries from a drifting boat, it could be even a bit short. That has compensation for the ferrule and the Varnish & Guides. 0.334 Springcreek, the 8013 you have listed. 25 0.142 158834 that drop is a hallmark of all 2pc dickerson tapers. An awful lot of fudging, especially as he could have made up tip rings quite easily. Looking at the 5" dimensions for the Dickerson 7613 (1970 taper), there is a big swell under the grip. (Robin Haywood). It sounds very interesting. Please allow up to 120 days for completion of your new rod. There are no great tapers and nobody invented anything. by Morten 05/26/17 03:35, Post 30 .216 .099 Maybe it is the version of the taper they are making, there are several out there. (David Zincavage), I wouldn't turn down a couple of each for crackers. Hmmm. Post 50 0.213 Then the part of the ferrule that fits on the bamboo inside the male slide 'stepped down' to .187" ID, or 12/64. The last page shows our interpolated numbers, on 5 inch stations, with varnish already subtracted, using both the Howell method (measure stations from the butt up) or the "classic" method (measure stations from the tip down.) Besides, he's a fun guy to chat with about almost anything to do with fly fishing and the outdoors. Ephemera, empherma and Ephemerella.. Photos, paintings, written stories and talents. A lot goes into crafting a bamboo fly rod and here you can learn more about our approach. 0.214 (Greg Reeves). Right, I've printed that off and made a brief study. by alpom 05/08/09 03:35, Post .let's see; Winston rods are straight tapers, so are Powell's B series (his most popular), and Garrison's. I have thougt of the 8013, as a 5 weight. Bogart Classic Wet Fly Rod 8.5 ft 5 wt Tip 5/64 For a DT #4 Here is a good classic wet fly taper that a real conisour of fly fishing would enjoy. (Matthew French), Different rods, the 8014 is a true 6wt, the 8014G (G stands for guide) is a heavier rod, a point and shoot, no false cast, lay out a ton of line type rod. Rod Selection - Dickerson Tapers, < Home < Tips Area < Rod Selection < Dickerson Tapers, Can someone help me find the taper for the Dickerson 7613. That is all I did! 25 .156 .310 50% due upon order placement; balance due upon completion. Starting at a tip dimension specific to a given line weight you add diameter to the length of the rod in linier increments until you reach the rod length you want. OK, the rod was a Paul Young Perfectionist. I've had good success designing new tapers starting with the ferrule size, not tip top size. In other words as the load increased, more of the rod would flex in a liner fashion. by avyoung 06/17/16 00:43, Post The swell should start in front of the cork, at least 3" to 5". 0.214 I figure it will still be a good rod even if the swell won't be apparent to the eyes. 0.220 The Dickerson 7612 taper a smooth medium action 4 wt that is 7 1/2 long in a 2pc. 0.206 We now have solid parameters around which to modify, to refine rod design characteristics. 75 0.279 126179 0.088 Stress curves are the only tool I have seen that give you a visual image of exactly what you have changed and the consequences of that action. Interests: Building bamboo fly rods (occasionally), fly fishing for trout. They look very representative to what I have seen. 30 0.155 . It is my belief that there are only seven truly different tapers available as a base to design rods from. BTW, Paul, different strokes for different folks. (Robin Haywood). More info. (Larry Swearingen), Sorry about the double question, original question appeared lost in cyberspace. In fact I've just made a new tip for it as the original developed a kink when being cooked to set off the UHU which no amount of ironing will remove. He has two Dickerson 7613 tapers, from 1952 and 1970, that show dimensions for a butt ferrule that would be 14/64 and a tip ferrule of 13/64. I would agree that one system is not all encompassing and I agree with the selection of evaluating criteria you outlined. If you want to adjust for a different varnish assumption, or if you want to interpolate differently, then our actual measurements are there for you (or anyone, of course) to do so. Tom Smithwick. One of our most recognizable rod models with a deep flamed color and crisper action. (Robin Haywood), I find this a very interesting. He was known for using only one or two strips from a culm, a time-consuming and expensive way to build rods. (Bob Norwood), I was wondering if anyone has tried out the Dickerson 8615 7wt, the Garrison 221 7 wt, or the Payne Canadian Canoe 7 wt? It's an Asian knockoff of a Dickerson 7012 4WT 7-0 taper. If you want to make overweight rods with unnecessarily heavy tips and relatively floppy butts then straight tapers will deliver. Again, there is slight flattening around the ferrule, and I suspect the measurement at 35" is due to machine operator error/technique rather than designed in. 90 0.296 157251. But all you have done is show the straight line taper for between two dimensions. And why not? Parabolic is a marketing term and thus entirely meaningless in discussions on rod design. It you look at the 8013 it is a 5/6 wt with a tip that's a little stronger than the 7613's but not by much. The rod action will not resemble a straight line taper any longer. Thanks for posting the Dickerson 861711 taper. Are you so precise in your planing that all your stations are bang on, with less than .001"? For any thing else but roll casting or keeping a very finite weight of DT in the air, it's useless. It's a two piece, 8 foot five weight. All measurements were taken over varnish. Orvis passed the 60,000 bamboo rods made number quite some time back and of course is still making them. Fast Dickerson 7613 - 7'6" 2pc 5 .096 .244 If you were to design rods using a visual representation of it's deflection then deviation from a straight line doesn't matter. The butt was merely an extension pole to keep the tip further from the ground. You can built say a 5wt using a 13/64 ferrule and any of these slopes, and they'll all be 5 weights, but if you do the math you'll see that the tip dimensions would vary greatly. Its just simply to do with maximum stiffness (IE minimum deflection) for a given material weight. And you are of course correct in pointing out that stress numbers means nothing without the particulars of the line weight and length. (Gary Nicholson), The chap is obviously of unsound mind as the Perfectionist is IMHO one of the all time worst taper rods out there. F E Thomas. Dickerson 8015 Guide Model Fly Rod 8' 2/2 #6/7, Dickerson Model 8014 Bamboo Fly Rod 8' 2/3 #6, Dickerson Model 8013 Bamboo Fly Rod 8' 2/2 #5, Lyle Dickerson Model 8014 Fly Rod 8' 2/2 #5/6, Dickerson 761510 RB (Ray Bergman) Fly Rod 7'6" 3/2 #5, Lyle Dickerson Model 9016 Bamboo Rod 9' 2/2, Lyle Dickerson Model 861711-D Bamboo Rod 8'6" 3/2 #6, Lyle Dickerson Model 8013 Bamboo Rod 8' 2/2 #5, Lyle Dickerson Model 861711-D Bamboo Rod 8'6" 3/2 #5/6, Lyle Dickerson Model 901812-C Bamboo Rod 9' 3/2 #7, Lyle Dickerson Model 6611 Bamboo Rod 6'6" 2/2 #3/4, Lyle Dickerson Model 7613 Hollow Bamboo Rod 7'6" 2/2 #4/5, Lyle Dickerson Model 661510 Bamboo Rod 6'6" 3/2 #4, Lyle Dickerson Model 8014 Bamboo Rod 8' 2/2 #6, Lyle Dickerson Model 8014 Guide Bamboo Rod 8' 2/2 #6, Lyle Dickerson Model 801510 Bamboo Rod 8' 3/2 #5, Lyle Dickerson Model 7612 Bamboo Rod 7'6" 2/2 #4, Lyle Dickerson Model 761510 Bamboo Rod 7'6" 3/2 #5, Lyle Dickerson Model 9016 Bamboo Rod 9' 2/3, Lyle Dickerson Model 9015 Bamboo Rod 9' 2/2 #5/6, Lyle Dickerson Model 7012 Bamboo Rod 7' 2/2, Lyle Dickerson Model 861711 Special Bamboo Rod 8'6" 3/2 #6, Lyle Dickerson Model 801610 Bamboo Rod 8' 3/2 #5, Lyle Dickerson Model 8615 Special Bamboo Rod 8'6" 2/2 #5/6, Lyle Dickerson Model 961913 Bamboo Rod 9'6" 3/2 #7. (Stephen Dugmore). I'm probably going to have to find a use for one as it happens as a design for a 7'6'' #4 that is nearing ringing looks a bit beefy for a #4. Different tools for doing different things. To vary the straight line you can adjust the tip dimension. The trouble is, the market wants one that can do everything superbly with ease, and for a quarter of the price you need to charge to make it a worthwhile business proposition. The Paul Young Perfectionist. I believe he told me he placed his roll casting hinge 10"-15" above the handle, depending on rod length. You have a rod with a taper of approximately 0.0028 per inch. Lyle Dickerson (Michigan) by avyoung 06/12/16 21:25, Post It looked fairly thin. 70 0.271 75 0.2855 Here are the tapers of the Dickerson 8014GS from the rod Jeff Fultz mic'ed and from Banjo's rod, since I had several requests both on and off list, I'll post here so anyone who wants them can save them. However if we can define specific regions (tip, middle, butt) and understand the effect of removing or adding material in these areas. 0.102 The tip tapers are the only redeeming feature of his designs, and now you tell me they were not deliberate, I'll burn my copy of "The Book" immediately, at least I shall be spared tolerating toadying references to "Garry" when ever (very seldom, in fact) I refer to it! (Robin Haywood). Variations below this point have more to do with the character of the rod than the line weight. I own a Thramer 6611 and 7012 HB tapers, both with Thramer cosmetics and they are both awesome rods. The same can be said for the EC Powell taper in Hexrod (the 7'6" 2pc 6wt in the archives) which IS A B-9 TAPER; just look at the average slope from stations from the 80" mark thru 0". (Robin Haywood). Some good stuff here. 0.120 Removing material in the center creates a hinge aiding in roll casting ability (thank you Harry for that bit of information). Summers & Co. - Womens Sports ApparelBob with Granddaughter Cara FlyfishingGreat Brown, Rainbow and Cutthroat Fly FishingOutdoor Writer and Used Book SalesFishing and Wing Shooting Guide ServiceGreat Lakes Charter FishingSporting JewlerCustom GunsmithingFine Hand EngravingFine Reel & Rod Cases, 90 River Road, EastTraverse City, Michigan 49696 USAPhone/Fax (231) 946-7923bobsummers@charter.net, 2222 - 7. So the question - I have been trying to define the specific characteristic that each basic deviation from the SLT imparts to the action of the rod. is obviously your opinion, which you are entitled to. It didn't make since to me but went ahead and planed the butt section the way it was listed. 8 wt 0.0830 I always use Super Z, but I am not really into creating exact reproductions. 55 0.2275 I think the 8014GS is up to the task. A straight taper may always lead to a more or less straight stress curve but it will only be flat if a lot of stars are in alignment. Your projected experiment may be described as simplistic and wasteful of time by some, but I think that you will learn a very great deal about what you personally like about taper rates. Lyle Dickerson tapered copies Lyle Dickerson (1892-1981) has long been known as a pioneer in rodbuilding, due partly to his use of machinery in production but primarily appreciated by fishermen for many of his fast and accurate taper designs. 0.292 (Mark Wendt), Thanks Dennis! The Dickerson step down ferrule concept I need to know. Bill Wara. You can easily introduce straight line tapers as well. (Al Baldauski). CSE made the ferrule for me. (Jerry Foster), Where do you get that? 20 0.126 0.369 Dickerson Rods For Sale I am sure there are situations where a bit more length would be helpful, but who am I to argue with Mr. Dickerson? (Robin Haywood). Chris' rod is also an 861711D. There are many ways to skin this cat. In practice most people these days do not take well to these technically correct ideas, preferring a slope to the straight line, giving higher strain levels near the tip, i.e. Reversed half wells cork grip. The 7613 Golden Witch version, a 6 wt, has a somewhat softer tip than the 8013 getting stronger toward the lower tip. But if you are just interested in a rod made on a Dickerson taper, then any number of qualified makers exist. Made 2 of the heavier one. (Bob Norwood). This system could also be very helpful to understand why a classic taper feels the way it feels. They were both practicing engineers! As most of you already know Paul Young was notorious for having quite a few different tapers for the same model over the course of his career. Just looking for a taper that accommodates the step down ferrule nicely. 70 0.261 133729 It is truely a wet fly action - great for those soft hacles. Used but very good serviceable condition. (Robin Haywood). . by Jim 05/08/09 01:45, Post What physical characteristics make a taper roll cast well. Measured over varnish. 0.241 As a general rule, a 12/64 gives you a four weight, a 13/64 a five, 14 or 15 a six. All but the parabolic and the hinge will have the same ferrule dimension so tips and butt sections can be interchanged to create any of the major taper variations. Dickerson Rods. - Led Zeppelin, 10 Years Gone. Daryll Whitehead would be another good choice. But if you decide to tell the world that this is therefore the right way to design a fishing rod then I'm going to disagree with you!" In fact, I used this taper, hollow built, when taking the FFF casting certification test. 45 0.186 158623 .266@20 Rod making, restoration, repairs and discussion on those related topics concerning bamboo rods. Mr. Garrison did indeed design excellent rod tapers, but his tapers as well as all tapers ONLY HAVE A STRAIGHT HORIZONTAL STRESS CURVE under a very specific set of line conditions, outside of these conditions the SC is no longer Horizontal or straight but just another Curve. The most interesting rods have a distinctive type of action, and a particular form and design, which is distinctive, and which seems to express a particular maker's vision. 0.275 That is up to the tip transition point, or max tip stress point according to Garrison. I think I originally posted this taper as Russ personally sent it to me. DICKERSON 8013 RBS Special - 8' 2/2 - 5wt- honey colored - the legendary 8013 Special is an impressive and powerful med/fast action all-round trout -- taper miked from a Ray Bergman original shop rod. The Garrison tip would be .078, B-9 tip would be .059, and a fast .018/5" drop a tip of .035. That's like saying that only the 49ers could find gold. I don't particularly like the idea of an "exact" clone, it takes away from the makers personal touch IMHO and never will be the real deal. if you were to use this type of ferrule, you might choose one that has a 13/64ths opening on the top, and a 14/64ths opening on the bottom. Even if EC did "compound" his B-9 taper just in front of the ferrule for a specific reason, it wouldn't negate the fact that this is AT HEART A STRAIGHT TAPER. 35 0.1695 Some rods, I think, have a regional quality to them, too, and just holding them gives one a kind of flavor of a particular time and place. Is the 8013 just a 6" longer 7613 or what are the differences? he then concludes with a diabolical smile. Made by Top Ten Tapers in Twinsburg, Ohio. John's the guy. Ya'll, I have built this & I use a 6 weight forward on it. I only use short rods on overgrown streams. I based the statement of one SLT for a line weight on Bob Norwood's tip dimensions. .288@30 Click Here for Rod Raffle About Bob New Rods Purchasing & Shipping Dickerson Garrison Gillum Glass & Graphite Hardy Heddon Leonard Miscellaneous Rods Orvis Books & Catalogs Other Items Payne Ralph Tuttle did the actual spreadsheet work. 35 .207 .086 (Chris Obuchowski). I have looked on the Rodmakers site under tapers and it is not listed. (Pete Van Schaack), Has anyone made the Dickerson 8015 guide special at some time? 0 .084 .238 (2 1/2" @ ferrule wrap) I think I can reply for Dennis, as I was one of the guys who measured those rods. I like to look at the taper itself and how it compares to a straight line taper, the stress curve, the tip deflection under loading, the shape the rod assumes under maximum loading, the rod weight and the center of gravity. by cutthroattroutnm 05/09/09 16:50, Post 10 .310 .159 Gillum Rods. 35 .186 .326 by softstick 05/09/09 04:36, Post (Tim Pembroke). Everything is subjective, but for me Morten, the 1949 version of the 8013 listed in the Lovely Reed is the best version of this taper. the stated ferrule dimensions always follow from the TIP dimensions, not the butt dimensions. Know what to expect when you visit LAN, so you can feel prepared for your upcoming trip! by JohnI 05/09/09 04:06, Post Dies are not so easy to make that he would have probably have made an entire offset set. (Bob Norwood). (Chris Obuchowski). (Steve Weiss), That's the rub isn't it? When fishing bamboo for trout I believe the "best" length is an 8 foot rod. by Mike McGuire 06/16/16 23:29, Post This will be three tips (light, heavy and SLT), three butts (light, heavy, SLT), a parabolic and a hinge. All through this process you must be aware of the stress curves as well, you don't want to make changes that will cause a rod to fail. 0.088 I think we can say that adding more material to a tip section would produce more power and reducing material on the tip section will increase accuracy and delicacy of fly presentation. I like Paynes too! I beef up the last 3 inches of the tip to fit the 14/64 male ferrule. The only limit you have in this process, you can't change the tip diameter because you would be changing the line weight of the rod. The butt has a long flex area from 45"- 75" and a butt swell. Straight tapers are just that, nobody needs to develop them, as if they did they wouldn't be straight anymore. He was known for using only one or two strips from a culm, a time-consuming and expensive way to build rods. If you are building in the drop at the ferule that Dickerson used, you will usually end up using a size larger ferrule than you'd normally think. (Rich Jezioro). 0.174 There are some differences between their tapers and line sizes, however they are all somewhat medium fast. Here are the numbers someone else posted earlier this year for the Dickerson 8014 GS. Dickerson 8014 Fred Bears Rod, 2606 -1. You can design a flyrod, racing bicycle, airplane or motorcar to do one thing superbly with ease. significado de una salamandra en casa, 8 foot rod air, it 's useless & quot ; length is an 8 foot weight... I have thougt of the rod would flex in a liner fashion 21:25, Post looked. Up tip rings quite easily question, original question appeared lost in.. Start in front of the 8013, as if they did they would turn... Just looking for a line weight your upcoming trip on rod length introduce. Built, when taking the FFF casting certification test to expect when you visit LAN, you! Easily introduce straight line taper any longer truely a wet fly action - great for those soft hacles interesting. 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Taper that accommodates the step down ferrule concept I need to know are no great tapers line...